Classic Shell: Forum

Firstly, what a cracking piece of software, I have a feeling that it will solve my issue once and for all but I can't see where to make my settings changes and I wonder if I could get some help please?

I am installing a new RDS 2012 R2 server for my students to log into and I want to lock it all the way down, it seems that the best way of doing that is to use Classic start menu.
So I logged into my RDS server as an administrator and installed Clasic Start Menu, configured it completely and then logged off.

I then logged in as one of my students but CSM doesn't appear....

How do I replace the standard Windows start menu with CSM?

Does it work when you log in as administrator?

Absolutely perfectly... there are still a few options (administrative tools) that appear on the start menu, but I'm guessing that traditional Group Policy will take care of those?

Download the Classic Shell Utility from here: http://www.classicshell.net/downloads/
Log on as a student, wait 15 seconds, and make sure the start menu still doesn't work.
Run the utility, save a system log file and send it to me.

Apologies for the delay in replying, I think I've actually moved on a great deal from my last post....
I now have the classic shell menu appearing for all of my users - absolutely brilliant, wish I'd discovered it a month ago.

Two small issues remain though.

Firstly, the first time a student logs in, they are presented with the "settings for classic start menu 4.2.5" box where they can, amongst other things, choose the style for the start menu - I'd like to remove that option so that it permanently defaults to the 'classic style' menu and the settings window doesn't appear.

Secondly there is still an icon for "disconnect" on the start menu that needs to not appear

Thirdly, at the top of the classic shell menu is a button that is labelled "start screen" that takes the user to the standard server 2012 screen - as the reason for installing classic shell was to remove access to this screen I need to remove that link as well please!

Can you advise how to sort those 3 things, once they're done I can roll out my production environment

Thanks so much.

1. See this topic: http://classicshell.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1417

2. Using the Group Policy "Menu items for classic menu with two columns" or "Menu items for classic menu with one column", you can hide any item you don't want. See this topic on how to configure that policy setting: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3374#p18752

3. Configure the Group Policy setting: "Show Start screen shortcut".

_________________
Links to some general topics:

● Compare Start Menus

● Read the Search box usage guide.

I am a Windows enthusiast and did Classic Shell's testing and usability/UX feedback.

Thanks for that, I've installed the relevant GPO plugins onto my main domain controller (where all my GPs are processed) and I can see there are a number of options under the Classic Shell menu.

Where I get confused though is how I now go from here to having the start menu that I have already set up on the RDS server appearing on all users.
Do I have to set up the entire start menu again from scratch using GPO settings?

No, you don't have to set it up again via Group Policy. Only, by default the settings are per user and editable by every user. Per-user settings are stored in the HKCU\Software\IvoSoft branch of the Registry. The settings for Start Menu which you configure via the GUI are stored at HKCU\Software\IvoSoft\ClassicStartMenu\Settings subkey.

But per-machine settings can be stored in HKLM\Software\IvoSoft branch and they override per-user settings (meaning affect all user accounts). An administrator can lock specific settings, so no user can edit them. This is achieved by adding the same reg value which is there in HKCU\Software\IvoSoft\ClassicStartMenu\Settings branch to the HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\IvoSoft\ClassicStartMenu registry key. (Note: In HKLM, there is no \Settings subkey).

This was developed earlier and then Group Policy support was added in a later release of Classic Shell.

So you just have to go to the Registry key at HKCU\Software\IvoSoft\ClassicStartMenu\Settings, export them to a .REG file. Change the path from HKCU\Software\IvoSoft\ClassicStartMenu\Settings to HKLM\Software\IvoSoft\ClassicStartMenu (without the Settings subkey) and merge it to the Registry.

In some cases you may not want to lock the value for all users, but simply modify the default value of the setting for all users. In such case, add "_Default" to the name of the value when adding it to HKLM branch. For example if you want the context menu to be disabled by default but still allow the users to edit it if they wish, create a DWORD value named "EnableContextMenu_Default" and set it to 0.

There is also a global value "EnableSettings" supported for the HKLM branch. Set it to 0 in the registry to prevent the users from even opening the Settings dialog.

_________________
Links to some general topics:

● Compare Start Menus

● Read the Search box usage guide.

I am a Windows enthusiast and did Classic Shell's testing and usability/UX feedback.

Sorry to keep being a pain but that's not working...

Let me try and be a little more precise in the hope that that helps you to see where I'm going wrong.

So, I have 2 RDS servers that I need to lock down the start menu functionality on... Classic shell is the recommended way of doing that, so initially I logged on to the RDS server itself as an administrator and installed classic shell and partially configured it (obviously when logged in as an admin I don't want it fully locked down so I just changed a few things to prove the concept)

I then logged in as a student to one of the thin clients, this presented me with the normal start menu so I installed classic shell and configured it fully, just to prove that it did the job - it does.

I now need to make it so that every user who logs into either of my 2 RDS servers sees the same start menu.

I have tried exporting the registry settings from the logged in student as you note, copied the exported file to the desktop of the RDS server, opened the registry on the RDS server, navigated to the key HKLM........ and right clicked the exported file and clicked merge but the settings don't appear under HKLM..... in the registry, in fact, the HKLM
registry on the RDS server doesn't have the full set of Classic Shell keys, it only has HKLM/ Software/ Ivosoft /classic shell there is no classic explorer or classic start menu

The current user chain has the full set of ivosoft keys but logging in to a thin client as a new user they still don't get the classic shell menu.

I'm fast running out of time to get this sorted so would really appreciate a fast response

To update a little before you reply again, to try and get back to a stable footing, I have now uninstalled Classic Shell from my RDS server and my RDS test client.
The GPO still exists, but applying that to the RDS test client doesn't result in the classic shell menu appearing again.......

I think I've got very confused by your 1.10pm post being so complicated..
Any chance of an actual step by step of what I need to do to get this installed and working for all clients who log into either of my 2 RDS servers please?

The whole situation is now possibly unrescuable...
For whatever reason I now have 3 different start menus, one on each of my 2 RDS servers and a totally different one on my test user.

I have tried setting various group policy options (group policy is set on my main domain controller that doesn't have the start menu installed) and then done a gpupdate /force on the RDS servers and the test client but nothing changes... it seems that nothing is linked any more....... HELP lol

I don't fully understand the whole RDS server and thin client thing. But here are some facts:
* You should not have to install Classic Shell multiple times on the same machine (same Windows installation). It gets installed in C:\Program Files and should work for all users
* Of course if you uninstall Classic Shell, then no amount of GPO settings will make it work
* When you edit the settings using the settings dialog, they are saved in HKCU\Software\IvoSoft. Classic Shell never writes to HKLM because it doesn't run as admin
* Group policies are saved in Software\Policies\IvoSoft. Computer policies are under HKLM and User policies are under HKCU

As I said, I don't know anything about administering RDS servers, thin clients, or domain controllers. There may be subtleties that are beyond my understanding.
However, at the end of the day, the start menu will read its settings from the registry. How the registry is written is not important. What's important is the contents of these keys:
HKCU\Software\IvoSoft\ClassicStartMenu\Settings
HKCU\Software\Policies\IvoSoft\ClassicStartMenu
HKLM\Software\IvoSoft\ClassicStartMenu
HKLM\Software\Policies\IvoSoft\ClassicStartMenu

I would recommend that you reset all settings, and first make sure that the start menu at least launches for all users you care about.
Only then you try to adjust the settings. After you change the settings, verify that they are actually stored in the registry keys listed above. And that those keys are actually accessible by the users.

I have no experience with RDS or domains so I may be wrong but as I understand, you don't need to install Classic Shell on the thin client since it RDPs into the Remote Desktop Server. You need to configure Classic Shell on one of the RDS servers which as I understand is also your domain controller. Export the REG on it from the HKCU branch. Open it in a text editor and find and replace HKCU\Software\IvoSoft\ClassicStartMenu\Settings by HKLM\Software\IvoSoft\ClassicStartMenu. Then merge the same reg again on the same RDS domain controller. After that you will have to restart the Start menu on the RDS computer by right clicking it and choosing Exit. Start it again from C:\Program Files\Classic Shell\ClassicStartMenu.exe. Only after restarting it, the Registry changes made directly will take effect.

After this, the thin client that connects to that RDS server will get the same Start menu which the RDS server has. If there are other standalone clients (non thin-clients) or servers in your domain, then only on those, you need to install Classic Shell but configure the Classic Shell Group Policy settings on the *domain controller*, so that after gpupdate /force, they will get the same configuration.

_________________
Links to some general topics:

● Compare Start Menus

● Read the Search box usage guide.

I am a Windows enthusiast and did Classic Shell's testing and usability/UX feedback.

So in theory what you're saying makes perfect sense....

Unfortunately the reality is a little different.

Both of my RDS servers now have identical start menus that are close to exactly how I want them to appear for users.

Unfortunately users aren't picking up the start menus from the RDS servers when they log in.....
I'm not sure where they are getting their settings from, they're getting sort of a halfway house of settings where some of the settings are the same as I have set on the 2 servers but others are not.

I have checked the registry entries that you mention on both RDS servers and they are identical (which accounts for the reason that both servers have identical start menus

The bit I'm missing seems to be how to make it so that whoever logs in to these 2 servers get the same start menu settings as the administrators of those servers get currently

First let's confirm that those users are getting the classic start menu at all. Otherwise no amount of settings are going to make a difference.
Are you seeing the Classic Shell menu for them?

On both the RDS servers, when I log in as Administrator I see the classic shell menu.

When I log in any of the students to the thin client machines, I also get the classic shell menu, but it's not got the same skin as those on the admin accounts when I log directly into the servers.
The strange thing is that the students all get the same menu, it just isn't the one that I set up under the Administrator login on the RDS servers.

I imported the ADMX etc tools into Group Policy on my domain controller (the domain controller is actually a third server that I don't want the start menu installed on) and I have one or two settings set through Group Policy.

Is it possible somehow that what the students are picking up is some sort of classic shell setup from group policy on the domain controller rather than from the RDS servers?

OK, so I've just confirmed that the above is the case, I changed a setting within Group Policy for Classic Shell and it's applied to all students who log in.
That's not an issue, I just need to find where in group policy a couple of the options are set and I should be away.

I'm assuming setting it up this way around is supported?

If you are sure you set the group policies correctly, and they still don't show up on the user accounts, let's do this test:
Download the Classic Shell Utility from here: http://www.classicshell.net/downloads/
Run it, save a system log, and attach it here.
Also list all settings that you modified and you expect to be applied to that account.

No issues, I can do that.

Which machine would you like me to run it from?

The domain controller (doesn't have classic shell installed but does control all our Group Policy processing
The RDS server (does have classic shell installed but I can only log in locally to it using the domain admin a/c and that is excluded from most Group Policy processing
The RDS client's local session (has classic shell installed, all Group Policy processed)

Run it on the exact machine/account where the problem exists.

So, I've run it on both the Domain Controller and the RDS server, file outputs attached.

In terms of the functionality I'm missing, these are the things that I still need to lock down before I can allow the students to log on, I'm aware that not all of these are controlled by Classic Shell, but I list them all here for completeness.

Disable Right Click on Classic Shell Menus (including the start button)
Remove 'last run' programs from the Start Menu
Remove 'start screen' shortcut from the Start Menu
Remove 'this PC' shortcut from the Start Menu
Under start menu / programs subgroup remove pictures and system tools (or at least remove computer and file explorer from the system tools menu)
Remove the charms bar and time and date popup
Remove Right click on toolbar (clock etc) (I have already removed right click for the desktop icons)

I was asking about what specific Classic Shell setting you've set via GPO, that is currently not working for you.

It's not quite as straightforward as that sadly, the settings that I set via Group Policy on the domain controller are pushed out to all the students who log in, that's fine.

The issue is that not all of the settings that I need to set can be done within Group Policy, some seem to need to be done on the registry, obviously I can't do that on the registry on the domain controller as that doesn't have classic shell installed, so has no classic shell settings within its registry.
If I set the registry settings on the RDS server then it's fine for whichever user is logged in when I make those registry changes but when another person logs in to the RDS server they don't get those settings applied.

The easiest way around this would be either for someone to tell me how to apply registry settings to all users from within group policy (I know the theory but not the correct syntax) or if I have actually missed Group Policy settings that do what I need (hence listing out what I need on a previous post)

According to your log file, these are already done:
Disable Right Click on Classic Shell Menus
Remove 'start screen' shortcut from the Start Menu

Are they not working for you?

About the rest:
Remove 'this PC' shortcut from the Start Menu - in the policy "Menu items for classic menu with one column" remove the item ComputerItem
Under start menu / programs subgroup remove pictures and system tools - you can't suppress certain programs via policies. If a file is in the Start Menu folder it will be shown in the start menu. Unless you delete it or hide it.
Disable Right Click on start button - you are almost there. By now you should only have the Help and Exit left in the menu. Disable Exit with the policy "Enable Exit". Disable the help by deleting the CHM file from the installation. Once you disable all items, the menu will not open.
Remove 'last run' programs from the Start Menu - I don't know what "last run" is
Remove the charms bar and time and date popup - Not a Classic Shell feature
Remove Right click on toolbar (clock etc) - Not a Classic Shell feature

Hi Ivo

Thanks for all the help.
Unfortunately somehow (I have no idea how) I seem to have locked myself out of the classic shell control panel on my 2 RDS servers
I've been through all of my GPOs and can't see anything that would stop access but it simply won't open.

Are there any back door ways into it or am I going to have to uninstall and start again?