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Removing Search Box "Clutter"...
http://www.classicshell.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1346		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Kilmatead [ Sat Oct 05, 2013 2:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Removing Search Box "Clutter"...
No doubt the "categories" in the searchbox results of v4.0 were added with the best of intentions, but such segregation ought to be optional, given that the category names are just clutter in the display, and one more thing (or in this case, two more things) the brain needs to filter "out" when reading the results. Unless there's a setting for this I'm missing.

Of more significance is that the "See more results" entry is completely superfluous if Windows Search itself is disabled (it opens an empty explorer form, even when there literally can be no more results to see). As the settings menu is aware enough to "warn" the user that the search service and/or indexing is disabled, surely it would be logical to remove the "see more" entry under such circumstances, if not optionally (as with enforced categorisation, above, hopefully).
Author:  Ivo [ Sat Oct 05, 2013 3:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Removing Search Box "Clutter"...
The categories are more than just clutter. They allow you to expand the search results. So if you see 5 programs and 5 settings, you can expand the first category to see 10 programs.
Author:  Kilmatead [ Sun Oct 06, 2013 12:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Removing Search Box "Clutter"...
I never said they didn't serve a purpose (though it be a tenuous one, visually) - I've read enough posts around here to know that despite your admonitions, users have been continually insisting upon using the searchbox and start menu as a whole for years now as a means of searching everything (linking whole drives, etc). No matter how much you repeat that "it was never intended for that" they do it anyway, and this sort of thing is inevitable. Such is life. :roll:

And, I appreciate that you have tried to accommodate that in as reasonable way as possible - but forcing categorisation on those who never asked for it is a bit odd. For example, even the item-enumeration counts appended to the labels are misleading - they don't accurately represent the number of "programmes" found, the count also iterates any links under those programmes, such as help-files, or web-pages, or whatever the installers decided to add there. I realise it's beyond CS's purview to waste its time differentiating the meat from the roughage - which is why the idea of categorising seems misplaced (to me) in the first place.

Don't get me wrong - I'm perfectly happy to go back to 3.6.8 in perpetuity - I just thought I'd mention the first small signs of UI bloat surreptitiously sneaking in, since you've been so notably careful to keep that sort of thing out up until now. :D
Author:  Gaurav [ Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Removing Search Box "Clutter"...
Btw Kilmatead, how are you disabling Windows Search? By disabling the Search service or by uninstalling Windows Search from "Turn Windows features on or off" ? On Windows 8.1, I don't see the ability to remove Windows Search at all using "Turn Windows features on or off" so the only way to disable it on that OS might be to stop the service.

When the service is stopped and disabled on either Windows 7 or Windows 8, "See more results" opens Explorer and continues to perform a real-time search. Only the indexing part is switched off. So in that case, "See more results" is not superfluous.
Author:  Ivo [ Sun Oct 06, 2013 8:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Removing Search Box "Clutter"...
He's probably stopping the WSerach service. The file search features in the menu are disabled. However the "See more results" is not hidden (but it should be). This will be fixed in the next version.
Author:  Gaurav [ Sun Oct 06, 2013 8:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Removing Search Box "Clutter"...
But why should "See more results" be hidden if the Windows Search service is stopped? Only indexing gets disabled in Explorer. Real-time search continues to work. Although I understand Kilmatead's point about having "See more results..." optional, maybe it should have a checkbox that doesn't depend on the service. Something like "Categorize search results and show link to see more results" so users can get 3.6.x behavior and won't feel categories forced. :)
Author:  Kilmatead [ Sun Oct 06, 2013 8:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Removing Search Box "Clutter"...
GauravK wrote:
Btw Kilmatead, how are you disabling Windows Search? By disabling the Search service or by uninstalling Windows Search from "Turn Windows features on or off" ?

All of the above, plus killing the indexing service, and (just for good luck over the grave) a healthy application of FILE_ATTRIBUTE_NOT_CONTENT_INDEXED applied to all likely disc objects. Not that I'm a fanatic or anything. It's just that I saw the film Halloween too many times to trust a man to stay down when he's dead and your back is turned. :) (That, and a few security-conscious clients.)

Thus, the "See more results" option does not (and cannot) perform any function at all (under those conditions). Granted, my approach is extreme, but as Ivo himself put in the changelog, "...the unparalleled customizability you've come to expect from Classic Shell" has always extended to not having to see UI elements just as much as it applies to actually having those elements in the first place. ;)

GauravK wrote:
But why should "See more results" be hidden if the Windows Search service is stopped? Only indexing gets disabled in Explorer. Real-time search continues to work.

It does not continue to work (perhaps you didn't restart after trying it). Removing WDS actually removes the search-bar control from the explorer form itself, so it's a little more effective than merely disabling the indexing.
Author:  Gaurav [ Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Removing Search Box "Clutter"...
Kilmatead wrote:
It does not continue to work (perhaps you didn't restart after trying it). Removing WDS actually removes the search-bar control from the explorer form itself, so it's a little more effective than merely disabling the indexing.


I know. :) I was only talking about the case when it's disabled, not when removing it from "Turn Windows features on or off". That might be removing the search control from everywhere. But it doesn't look like future versions of Windows are going to allow removing Windows Search completely. At the most, you can disable the search service in Windows 8.1, Windows Search is not listed as a removable component.

There might be users who turn off the indexing only but want to use "See more results" in Explorer. :)
Author:  Gaurav [ Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Removing Search Box "Clutter"...
I noticed that there is in fact a Group Policy under User config -> Administrative Templates -> Start Menu and Taskbar -> "Remove See More Results / Search Everywhere link". CSM could just support that too instead.
Author:  Gaurav [ Mon Oct 21, 2013 12:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Removing Search Box "Clutter"...
@Kilmatead, in the latest version of Classic Shell, if you uncheck "Search files", then "See more results" will be hidden.
Author:  Kilmatead [ Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Removing Search Box "Clutter"...
"Search files" always was aware of the search service being disabled (it was displayed in the tooltip), which is why the 'See More' entry was a bug - fixed in the new release, thankfully; thus the entry doesn't disappear solely because it's unchecked, it disappears because CS is now aware that it shouldn't exist, checked or not. :)

It's the little things that count. A pity forced categorisation is still involuntary, but that's just my own unpopular preference, the other was a bug, so I can grudgingly live with it.

Thanks.
Author:  Gaurav [ Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Removing Search Box "Clutter"...
As I said above, 'See more results' can be used in the Windows Start Menu even if the search service is disabled. It just doesn't use the index in that case. Search service!=search. Search service=only indexing. This ability disappeared with 4.0.2. Oh well.
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