Classic Shell: Forum

Hi folks.

Firstly let me thank you for this application, that is indeed of tremendous help and deployment of systems.

I got an issue with Classic Shell. It seems that every now and then, something like 6 out of 10 boots, explorer will crash after I click the start button for the first time. It kind of freezes for a second and then you have to click on it again so it will "finish crashing" and restart explorer. It's not so critical, but it's one hell of an annoying bug.

I read about setting up how to grasp core dumps, however, this happens only after the very first click after boot.
Should I set the procdump to be loaded BEFORE explorer? How can I achieve that, exactly?

Thanks.

You can set up a shortcut on your desktop that opens a command prompt and runs procdump. You can run it before clicking on the start button.
The command line will look something like "cmd.exe /K C:\programs\procdump -e explorer.exe"

Ok,

I was able to grasp a first exception right on the crash...
Exception: 80010002

Will test more for more numbers...

My classic shell keeps halting.
I suspect it could have anything to do with "going straight to desktop" before the standard start screen finishes loading up.
This is how it halts... anyone experiencing the same thing?

Check image attached.

Check here how to capture a crash dump even on startup: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=6#p9789

Seems to me that the second method may strike some luck.
I will be watching the dumps and post here.
Thanks again!

Oh, well...

It seems I am not getting any crash reports.

My regedit configuration is attached. Please advise.

Thanks.

Did you remember to create the folder "C:\CrashDumps"? Also, look in the event viewer. Maybe an event is logged saying why the dump failed to save.

Yes, the folder is created.

The event viewer is logging the errors.

Yesterday, Explorer crashed like twice in a row.

From event logger:

First crash:

- System

- Provider

[ Name] Application Hang

- EventID 1002

[ Qualifiers] 0

Level 2

Task 101

Keywords 0x80000000000000

- TimeCreated

[ SystemTime] 2014-01-18T00:33:12.000000000Z

EventRecordID 23384

Channel Application

Computer callisto

Security


- EventData

Explorer.EXE
6.3.9600.16441
b6c
01cf13e4c057e501
0
C:\Windows\Explorer.EXE
0d549b56-7fd8-11e3-831e-00248c8fa7c7


430072006F00730073002D0074006800720065006100640000000000


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Binary data:


In Words

0000: 00720043 0073006F 002D0073 00680074
0010: 00650072 00640061 00000000


In Bytes

0000: 43 00 72 00 6F 00 73 00 C.r.o.s.
0008: 73 00 2D 00 74 00 68 00 s.-.t.h.
0010: 72 00 65 00 61 00 64 00 r.e.a.d.
0018: 00 00 00 00 ....


Second crash:

- System

- Provider

[ Name] Application Hang

- EventID 1002

[ Qualifiers] 0

Level 2

Task 101

Keywords 0x80000000000000

- TimeCreated

[ SystemTime] 2014-01-18T00:33:40.000000000Z

EventRecordID 23390

Channel Application

Computer callisto

Security


- EventData

explorer.exe
6.3.9600.16441
d50
01cf13e4d19e7d9d
0
C:\Windows\explorer.exe
1be9f0e0-7fd8-11e3-831e-00248c8fa7c7


430072006F00730073002D0074006800720065006100640000000000


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Binary Data:


In Words

0000: 00720043 0073006F 002D0073 00680074
0010: 00650072 00640061 00000000


In Bytes

0000: 43 00 72 00 6F 00 73 00 C.r.o.s.
0008: 73 00 2D 00 74 00 68 00 s.-.t.h.
0010: 72 00 65 00 61 00 64 00 r.e.a.d.
0018: 00 00 00 00 ....

No, I was looking for an event about a failure in the crash reporting, not explorer itself.
Other than that, I'm out of ideas. There is another version of Classic Shell coming out either today or tomorrow. Maybe one of the changes there fixes your problem. Or makes it worse.

Can you please advise where exactly should I go in Event Viewer?

No idea. I was hoping that there will be some message about why it didn't save a dump.

I have updated to 4.0.4 and still get the behaviour.
Basically it's explorer.exe crashing. There are no ClassicShell reports in crash.

Yes, the majority of the start menu code runs inside explorer.exe. The ClassicStartMenu.exe process is only there to perform small additional tasks.

Well, I have looked into the CrashDumps folder today and to my surprise, it is issuing dumps. I've 2 application dumps here but no explorer on sight.

What applications are those? Maybe they are indirectly crashing explorer?

svchost.exe
audacity.exe

That's it. I am defecting from Windows 8.1

Well, actually, the file-copy feature is a must... never seen something so cool.
Will work out a bit more on this issue.

krafty, unfortunate that you're not getting a crash dump otherwise it could have been detected what was crashing your Explorer.

_________________
Links to some general topics:

● Compare Start Menus

● Read the Search box usage guide.

I am a Windows enthusiast and did Classic Shell's testing and usability/UX feedback.

What I am failing to understand is why I am not getting a dump, even though the taskbar crashes.
It doesn't get dumped where it is told to.

I believe the crash is related with two things:

- Icons being loaded on notification area, or apps being loaded there along with classic shell.
- Application icons figuring in taskbar, for example: When I tell to uTorrent to load up with Windows, it definitely halts Classic Shell from operating, after the first Start Button click.

What version of Windows and uTorrent do you have? I will try to reproduce the exact conditions.

uTorrent 3.3.2 build 30488 32bit

Windows 8.1 build 6.3.9600 64 bit

I tried installing uTorrent 3.3.2 on Windows 8.1 and it works just fine. After a reboot I log in, the start menu is there and functional, and about 10 seconds later uTorrent starts up. It adds a notification icon with no problems.

I will try to make a video....

Ivo,

Can you please test if Sticky Notes affect Classic Shell startup?
Create a sticky and then reboot and when the taskbar loads try to click start button...
I just disabled a sticky note, logged off and didn't have any problems THIS time (was having every time).

OK, I will. but can you check if a simple logging off is enough, or if a full restart is required to reproduce the issue.

Yes, a simple log off will do it - to fix it.
To trigger the issue, I don't know... Try logging off first. Are you on a server?

What I meant to ask is, do you have to do a full restart to reproduce the crash, or does it crash even after simple log off + log in?
Another thing that's important - does your Windows log in automatically or do you have to type a password?

If a simple log off doesn't crash, and if you log in automatically, then it might be a timing issue. Possibly after a restart some service doesn't have enough time to finish starting up and crashes.

Hi Ivo

It seems that when I log off and log on again, when I log on, the problem doesn't happen.
I log in with password, I don't let it automatically log on.

I believe it is really a timing issue. When I reboot, it will crash, even if I wait for everything to load up (perhaps Shell is loading before some necessary service...)
But if I log off and on again, it doesn't happen (obviously because something that is supposed to be there, is already there up).

OK. during the weekend I will try using the sticky notes as well.

I have the same problem right after boot the explore crashes too; it took me sometime to determine it was the classic shell that causes the problems.
Right After I have uninstalled all of the classic shell from windows 8.1 the crashes stop.
This problem happens only sometimes only, and the version I was using was v4.0.4 after updated v4.0.2 I think, or v4.0.0.

@Jayletoo, are you able to capture a crash dump?

_________________
Links to some general topics:

● Compare Start Menus

● Read the Search box usage guide.

I am a Windows enthusiast and did Classic Shell's testing and usability/UX feedback.

I am able to get crash reports, but not Explorer.exe`s...
If he isn`t able to do this, then it is the same thing we`re experiencing...
A timing issue.

Looks like with clean install of windows 8.1 with clean install of classic shell fixed everything not getting any crashes.
So nothing wrong with the software, probably something happened during an upgrade process.

Jayletto.... it's like this when you clean install W8.1
As you get to add more startup programs, like Kx Mixer, nvidia drivers, printer drivers, what have you, you may experience trouble if you try to click on start menu.
The thing is to determine which are the things that need to be loaded BEFORE classic shell and the things that have no issues after it. Because all these programs occupy a little space in the taskbar notification, it may influence all this.

Wouldn't there be a trick to prevent Windows from loading all startup items on boot. In Windows 98 it used to be SHIFT key, from POST to desktop load. All items would be ignored. Isn't there something like that for Windows 8 or 8.1 ?

No the Shift key bypass stopped working in Vista and later.

_________________
Links to some general topics:

● Compare Start Menus

● Read the Search box usage guide.

I am a Windows enthusiast and did Classic Shell's testing and usability/UX feedback.

I am going to try to turn off a few things like Metro apps display switch and something else here. Looks to me that Shell is choking when it tries to load up something on its own.

It is with sadness that I announce that I moved from Classic Shell to a commercial application called Start8.
I could not stand the crashes anymore.
I wish the development team all the best, and keep the good work.
It was obvious for me that Classic Shell had timing issues.
I know how hard it must be for software developers hearing this after so much effort.
But, when the competition is better, there's nothing one can do, even for free.

Instead of starting a new thread, I'm resurrecting this one as the issue I'm experiencing is exactly what the OP describes (and I have successfully managed to take an app hang dump).

Running Windows 7 64bit SP1, I have just migrated to a new laptop. I've installed the same apps (some newer versions), and have replicated settings etc. but I have now started to experience intermittent Explorer hangs at startup. This was never an issue on the old laptop. I tried using the older version that I used on the laptop (4.0.6) with no luck. I have now been troubleshooting with the latest stable version (4.1.0).

Seems like there is a incompatibility between Classic Shell and another app I have installed as when I disable all apps that start on logon (via msconfig), I can't get Explorer to hang.

Anyways, I managed to get a app hang dump using procdump. I had to fiddle around to capture the dump so this is how I did it.

I created a scheduled task to tun at logon with the following action parameters:

• Program/script: "C:\Procdump\procdump.exe"
• Arguments: -h explorer.exe
• Start in: C:\Procdump\

(I'm sure you can just have a shortcut/batchfile run from the startup folder too if you like, but the above worked for me.)
Once logged on, procdump would start waiting for the hang, and then a few seconds later (when Explorer hangs) would exit dumping the dump in C:\Procdump\

Perhaps this way of capturing a app hang (as opposed to a app crash) could be added to the instruction post here: http://www.classicshell.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=6

Anyways, the dump can be downloaded from here (13 MB): https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/8452679/Classic%20Shell%20app%20hang%20dump/explorer.exe_150212_233637.dmp

Would be great if someone could have a look. Perhaps there is something obvious that causes the hang. Or perhaps we can pinpoint which app(s) are incompatible with Classic Shell.

Thanks!

Eddie

It appears that it may be related to the file BCMWLCPL.CPL. Your symptoms are similar to what is described here: http://en.community.dell.com/support-fo ... t/19287843
Follow the instructions in that forum post how to move that file and see if the problem gets resolved.

Thanks Ivo!

That seems to have solved my issue. Will need to try a few more restarts but so far so good.

Can't believe Dell haven't fixed the issue that's been around since 2009!

Anyways, thanks a lot for taking time and looking into my issue (and solving it).

Also thanks for this great piece of software.

Cheers!

Sometimes a fix is seen as too costly to be worth the effort. Other times a fix can introduce other problems into the systems people not experiencing the issue. and sometimes its just a matter of the right person seeing the post.

A few more days and a lot of reboots. Issue is gone! Thanks a million!