Classic Shell: Forum

Hi Ivo

i've noticed two issues in that new version.

1) I used to be able to bring up a classicshell submenu by right clicking on the start button, in order to access the start menu settings .. . Right clicking today, has zero effect .. .

2) Something new that i don't want: start menu shortcuts are reduced by "..." at the end cutting words, & i want my full shortcut names to appear like in previous versions.


Thanks

1) Right clicking on the Start button shows the context menu with 'Windows Explorer', 'Open', 'Open All Users', 'Settings', 'Help' and 'Exit' items. If instead you are getting the Win+X menu, then try Shift+right click. There is a setting on the Controls tab "Right click opens Win X menu" to control this.

2) You may have reduced the main menu and/or sub-menus widths which is why you are seeing '...'. Go to the "Menu Look" tab and increase the widths or right click the values and click "Set default".

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I am a Windows enthusiast and did Classic Shell's testing and usability/UX feedback.

Hi Guarav,

Actually you are incorrect. The original submitter of this bug is correct.

There is most definitely a bug and that is the only reason I have registered to the forum today - to highlight it.

I installed 4.0.2 over 3.6.8 and, straight away I have endless menu entries with ..... at the end, and the width of the entry does not matter, it is totally arbitrary. I have longer entries than the one below on the main Start Menu and they get cropped, and this one below, on the Programs Menu also gets cropped. Changing the WIDTH setting (which I had never ever touched in my entire history of using Classic Shell) makes not one bit of difference no matter how high or low I go.



Environment : Win 7 Pro 64-bit, IE 11.

I have done further tests : the problem does not happen with 3.6.8. It also does not happen with 4.0.2 if only IE9 is installed. From IE10 onwards, 4.0.2 gives this problem.

If I uninstall 4.0.2 and revert back to 3.6.8 the problem goes away.


Ilka.

I don't see how the version of IE can make a difference. Can you attach two pictures of the same menu with IE9 and IE10, or with 4.0.2 and 3.6.8? Also save your settings to XML file and attach it here.

Hi Ivo,

Here is the XML settings file.

I won't be able to send you the differences because I was at one of my clients when I investigated this. Here at home I only have IE11 installed.

Screen resolution : 1920 x 1080 -- 24'inch widescreen BenQ monitor.


Ilka

"Gauravk: 1) Right clicking on the Start button shows the context menu with 'Windows Explorer', 'Open', 'Open All Users', 'Settings', 'Help' and 'Exit' items.
If instead you are getting the Win+X menu, then try Shift+right click. There is a setting on the Controls tab "Right click opens Win X menu" to control this."

1) That's wrong .. . i've used classicshell v3.X .. . till now & right clicking the button opens "classicshell" internal context menu, i haven't asked the win8 metro context menu .. .
i'd like to have that menu back in order to directly access start menu settings by selecting the option in start menu's context menu found by right cliking the start menu button in previous versions.

"Gauravk: 2) You may have reduced the main menu and/or sub-menus widths which is why you are seeing '...'. Go to the "Menu Look" tab and increase the widths or right click the values and click "Set default"."

2) I confirm Ilka's test. I have small icon size 16, large icon size 28 (personal, i don't need extremely big start menus with normal submenu sizes), main menu width: 60, submenu width: 60,
tweaking it doesn't affect the "..." word cutting issue, even after a restart.

Please fix those 2 issues in 4.0.3

1) By default right-click on the start button opens the menu that has the settings. Maybe you have checked "Right click opens the Win+X menu"?

2) The problem is caused by the & symbol in the name. It causes mis-calculation of the text size.

Oh! I see. Is this a regression caused by the '&' in 4.0.2?

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It seems to be a regression GauravK if ivo doesn't fix it in next version, otherwise, it's a bug ))
Because i never had issues with shortcut's names including "&" in previous releases .. .

"1) By default right-click on the start button opens the menu that has the settings. Maybe you have checked "Right click opens the Win+X menu"?"

No Ivo, it's unchecked in my settings & i still don't get classicshell's menu right clicking on the button .. .

Ps: i don't know if it's related, but i'm running 7+ taskbar tweaker with "hovering - Nothing" checked for thumbnail popups, i use it to get the old right click/restore/minimize/close menu for applications & to avoid thumbnail popups. I closed the program & still can't open classicshell' settings right clicking the start menu button.

What version of Windows are you using? Are you using a custom start button?

If your Start button is transparent, then right clicking on the transparent areas may not give you the Classic Shell context menu.

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check my files Ivo

I am still unclear what version of Windows you are using. 8 or 8.1.
I have Windows 8 with 7+TT, also set to show the old-style context menu and to hide thumbnails. Right-click on the start button works just fine.

delicacy, could you also attach your Start Menu XML settings and tell which custom button if any you're using and whether it has transparent pixels? You could also attach your custom button here.

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Gauravk, the screenshot of the button is attached there: Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 3:51 am

& i'm ataching the xml here

my system's Windows 8 pro N
2012

Looks like you have the menu set to open by hover and hover delay set too low, so the Start button context menu can never show.

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I'm gonna tell u what it looks like Gauravk.. A bug..

1) i've never had different settings for mouse hovering & delay under v3.x
2) with those settings, classicshell settings always popped up right clicking the button (i never mouse hovered to open the settings but the start menu only)

Well:
1) You should have mentioned from the very beginning that you have the hover setting, and that the start menu is open when you right-click
2) The rules have changed in the new version, and for various reasons the menu must not be open for right-click to work. If you can manage to right-click faster than 78ms, then it will work. If that's too fast for you then you need to increase the hover delay

Effectively Ivo, u discuss ur bugs & tell ppl they have to cope with it .. . It's what i told Gauravk, it's a bug or downgrade with the refusal to fix it.
i will then have to downgrade forever. What you're telling me doesn't apply to previous releases. & there's always a way to fix it, but since all you want to do is discuss
about ur downgrades, ill downgrade myself too & go back to a stable release. without caring about any future release ever, since u keep adding features that arent always needed & refuse to fix the issues that occur after previous releases that were functional for some actions.

time to finally turn the page, thanks for ur adult explanation, at least, i know i'm wasting my time with u here, u finally answered all my expectations.

i know have to roll back to the previous release step by step till finding one that is not to old & doesn't have that bug.

"The rules have changed in the new version"

& that's very adult .. . since there's a big difference between HOVERING/CLICKING & RIGHT CLICKING .. .

UR RIGHT, those three actions shouldnt interfer, so lets disable the rapidity of the settings popup .. .

that makes sense, i understand u, anyways dude..
ur too much for me, i have to go & leave this site for good.

Well Ivo & Gaurav,

Note the use of the ampersand

I totally totally agree with Delicacy. I have used Classic Shell since before version 3, that's how long ago I have been using it, and it has never ever ever ever been an issue to have ampersands (&) in the name of a program or program group.

I know you give the product free but to say that in 4.0.2 one cannot use ampersands is like saying : "We used to be absolutely brilliant programmers in version 2 and version 3, but now, users, we just want to be average programmers and you will simply have to live with it !!!".

It makes absolutely no sense at all.

This reminds me of the CDBURNERXP program where in previous versions it was possible to create CDs and DVDs with a CD name up to 32 characters long. Suddenly they reduced that to 12 characters and were offended that users complained. Again that is a free program but, still, I cannot see the logic in any programmer saying that they prefer to have lower standards.

I simply cannot see the logic in that.


Ilka

I don't get why you think the ampersand issue won't be fixed. It will be. Version 4 has a lot of changes compared to 3, with many systems rewritten from scratch to improve performance and support the new features. Some bugs like the & issue snuck in.

What will probably not be fixed is the ability to open the context menu while the start menu is open. This was causing problems and was disabled. As a side effect if you set a low hover delay and you are not fast enough to right-click within that time period you will have problems accessing the context menu. This is not a big deal because there are other ways to access the same commands, like to edit the settings or view the help.

If delicacy is so upset with this and won't speak to me again over it, I think I can live with that.

Hi Ivo,

---------------------------
I don't get why you think the ampersand issue won't be fixed.
---------------------------

Ahhhhh, then Many Thanks for fixing this in a future version.

That was my ONLY issue in my case.


Regards,
Ilka

@delicacy, it's not a refusal to acknowledge or fix the issue. Why wouldn't we want our own free software to be better if there was indeed a bug? Showing the context menu while the Start menu was open was causing problems. You could try a hover delay value of 300 and then you double right click on the Start button to show the Classic Shell context menu.

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I am a Windows enthusiast and did Classic Shell's testing and usability/UX feedback.

"Showing the context menu while the Start menu was open was causing problems"

i've never had problems, and slowing the delay of hovering is waiting stupidly
when people are busy, they want to reach files in a faster way, i'm on windows 8 in 2013
& not conducting a 1930's truck. there's no point in slowing down the hovering popup delay.
if there are bugs "i don't see at all" with a quicker popup mode, there are certainly other ways
to fix it than condemning & limiting the delay.

@delicacy, if it helps, I observed that if you use the built-in Start button in Windows 8.1, you can set the Hover delay to 0 as well and you will still be able to right click on the Start button effortlessly. If you replace the Start button, then a hover delay of 300 will allow you to double right click on the Start button to show the context menu.

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I am a Windows enthusiast and did Classic Shell's testing and usability/UX feedback.

i can't do that, i need o downgrade if it isn't fixed in next versions.
i can't change my hover delay from 78 to 300, why not 900 ?

there has never been any bugs with right clicking the start menu to get the settingds menu even if the start menu pops up,
that isn't an issue for me.

& there's another super new feature in v4.0.2

you can't open the start menu options even from the file folder..
that was another "fix" i forgot to mention..

we're in downgrade mode lol as the v4x are arising..

What do you mean by "you can't open the start menu options ever from the file folder..."? What is this "file folder" you speak of?

file (startmenu settings executable) folder (its folder)

Are you saying that clicking on "Start Menu Settings" shortcut in the "Program Files\Classic Shell" folder doesn't open the settings? It works for me.

God blessed you Ivo, it doesn't work here.

The way the settings shortcut works hasn't changed in 2 years.
Let's figure out why it doesn't work for you.
If you open a command prompt (as a regular user, not admin), then go to the classic shell folder, then type "ClassicStartMenu.exe -settings", what happens?
Also, using a tool like Process Explorer verify that all three processes: cmd.exe, ClassicStartMenu.exe and Explorer.exe run at the same integrity level.

it works using the command prompt

Then something is wrong with the shortcut. Check its properties for something out of the ordinary. Maybe the target EXE is wrong, or the working folder, or maybe there are some compatibility settings applied to it.

ok, i recreated a shortcut with -settings, fixed.

Bug number #2 is fixed in Classic Shell 4.0.4 - the case when sometimes, the text with '&' was cut off

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I am a Windows enthusiast and did Classic Shell's testing and usability/UX feedback.

"1) I used to be able to bring up a classicshell submenu by right clicking on the start button, in order to access the start menu settings .. . Right clicking today, has zero effect .. . "

Ok, i got it, Ivo is obsessed with the idea that the right click start menu option window should never open itself after the start menu or over the start menu,
even if a user is objectively wanting to go there to open start menu options .. .

the downgrade of Ivo includes a workaround after making sure Ivo will keep this downgrade with total vanity forever from v4.0.2 to 4.0.4 .. . without fix..
the workaround is: make sure the hover delay is as slow as opening a house window ....... . WHEN MOUSE HOVERING ON THE START MENU & you'll be able to
quickly access the right click menu before start menu opens, it's a menu window chasing game.

IVO ROCKS... he has amazing ideas .. .

That's fine, i kept the hovering delay to 78 with a normal access to the start menu on mouse hovering without senseless slowdowns,
& willl never access that window again to open start menu options. let's forget it & let that option condemned for good.

I accept the downgrade, good Job!

ur the best coder & most wise coder i've ever known in my life.

Kind regards

@delicacy, in Classic Shell 4.0.5, right-click on the Start button works even when the menu is opened or when the hover delay is 0.

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I am a Windows enthusiast and did Classic Shell's testing and usability/UX feedback.

Somebody needs a little timeout.

Geez - there are other options out there (and much less productive I might add) that aren't free.

But really, to take that kind of entitled attitude, because of the FREE efforts someone else has done for YOUR productivity - and respond like it's an insult to work with that person - is beyond belief.


I can't believe how badly some people can behave. I had an issue with a bug - posted it - and it got handled. Even if it didn't, I certainly wouldn't act like that - and if you were happy with the previous version - and it did what you wanted - go back.