Classic Shell: Forum

I would be scared having shutdown that big. Accidents do happen. Text padding would make it bigger.

Search box can be made bigger. How much, don't know?
Make the stretch slices as small as possible, with non stretching slices bigger.
Adjust all the different paddings for it.

As for the other two, I don't know.
Could burn it into the menu bitmap, but as menu shrinks and expands, it would be very difficult to keep everything lined up.
A different way, maybe if there is some way to make the selectors have another state, like the shutdown button, where it can be made visible without hovering above it. Only Ivo would know if possible. Even if it is possible, would be hard to get it's own blur on it.

The user picture can be made larger. In 7 style, it always centers around the second column. I'm trying to remember way back, I tried the user picture transparency behind it.

User_image_alpha=200

I think I was using Windows 8 (without glass blur), so I don't know if blur could work.
I know if a user picture frame is used, there is no blur on frame.
I think only the menu bitmap can have blur. Anything above it would have to be blended, or mixed with the menu using 127/255 red pattern/emblem mask.

Yeah, looks like having separate rectangles for each menu entry would be very hard to accomplish, with the little knowledge I have of the subject. About all one could do is have the whole block of them, one for 1st, and one for 2nd without the gaps in between.


Good luck with it. Maybe Jcee, Gaurav, and Ivo can give some pointers to help you out.


OH, I only just saw the red line part. You could modify an icon frame image, so everything is alpha invisible , except for a line on the side.
Increase the Main_icon_frame_offset so the vertical line is continuous .

Hello juniper7, you understood some things wrong. User image and shutdown button writtten in the image above is just only to tell that there position lies there. I don't mean them to be as large as they are shown. (Infact, i don't want anything of the same exact size as shown in the image, it just only to give basic idea what i want to do)

Yes, Search box, If larger, would be good. I tried this doing in before in the crystal theme, but could not figure out. Whose stretch slices you are talking about. I know of Background Slices, its padding and search box padding. Please, explain it.

And I got your idea of Icon frame, it's perfect.

That white background behind every item is hard to achieve. I only have obtained the whole block as you have suggested in the test skin above.

Few questions

1] Should i Use the pattern or emblem for the picture ? (that represented blue in color)
2] I have used pattern in the test skin above, but i have achieved the transparency, not blur. If you happen to see the skin file, tell if i have done anything wrong ?

Ok Thanks again

Here's a screenshot what I have accomplished till now:

Screenshot link is broken, or something.

No big shutdown ok

I'm trying your skin now.
The search box looks big already.
Unless you mean you want the white part with the S included on top.
If so, requires one or more Search_background, and Search_background_mask bitmaps, and a whole lot a text.

Patterns or emblems, it's up to you.
An emblem shows once. A pattern, once it runs out of image, it repeats itself again and again.

There are a number of ways to get the image to show through.
The actual image has like, say 150 alpha transparency in it, or the emblem1, or pattern1 mask could have 150/255 red.
The mask could have 150 alpha. It's all going to mix. Could even have original menu bitmap at 0 alpha, then the pattern mask, or image takes over. I have not tried all the ways.

Black is usually to block the image. Red relates to 1. green is 2. Blue is the pattern3/ emblem3

In the end it's the final alpha that Windows sees from CSM program that makes the blur.
It's funny. The alpha layer does not blur. I guess Windows adds another blur layer.
Take a look at blown up screenshot of Groove music player.
Windows added random dither noise to the alpha channel, for an artsy look.
You can see all the little pixels dots. Also see there is large blur radius behind.


I started to play with your skin. A user picture can not stretch.
I think on 7 style it has to use User_mask instead of a User_bitmap, to see desktop.
I put the User_mask bitmap at 128 alpha. It came out too milky.
Increased Main_bitmap=1 to 64 alpha. I'm running out of playtime. Will check back in a day, or two.
Chow man

I got tired of changing pattern1 image . I put this text so I could do without openinclosing file:

OPTION_IMAGE CUSTOM_IMAGE=#7034,0

[CUSTOM_IMAGE]
Pattern1=@CUSTOM_IMAGE@

Yeah, You are right. All the alpha channels are blended together and resulting alpha is used. While what I want is that Background Image should be opaque And the white pattern behind the menu items should be of translucent and remaining spaces should have heavy blur. But, to do this, each individual image should have its own alpha and glass settings.

Later in the day, When i was continuing the work, I got an idea. Instead of classic shell (/Windows) make the desired blur, I added the blur to the image i was using as a pattern in photoshop. And made the white background behind menu items opaque and then adjusted the mask. It turns out to work and basic idea behind the skin is seem to nearly fulfilled.

But it has a major drawback, we can't use any image directly, instead we have to add blur before. But i think this can be solved if we can get another pattern for only the blur and adjust the mask settings.

But then another problem turns out, due to blending of two patterns, menu transitions become slow and starts lagging. (This might not be a problem and is happening on my laptop due to slow hardware, although I don't think laptop's hardware is that much slow, Try it on your PC).

And also, I am currently using pattern for imaging which is quite good but i think emblems can serve the purpose well for adjusting the alignments. But a problem is appearing there. When I edit the skin file to use emblems to mix two images or to use a mask (see in the skin file, It is at the top and commented out), and then saves everything and blah!! blah!! and then clicks the start button to open the start menu, explorer.exe (windows shell) stops responding and restarts. I don't know why it is happening. Also if i tried one image, everything is fine. Any Ideas??

So below is the revised skin file and menu settings and a screenshot. Although i have edited the skin thoroughly, it needs some more edits and a couple of new features which I will try to add tomorrow.

OK hope you try it.

Hi.
I don't know if there is any kind of image that can blur like a real piece of physical diffuse glass, just by putting behind.
It would have to scatter the light going through it in different directions. Need a program to do it.

Alpha blending slows down menu operation. There is a note in the skinning tutorial about it,
and ways to reduce it. If I understand it correctly, the actual picture should have the alpha transparency,
not the pattern mask. I have only noticed animation slowdown with 150% DPI setting in CSM.
Now we know why Ivo didn't have pattern feature for submenu. It puts too much stress on graphics processor.

I don't have time to look at your files. Whenever I get the menu crash and restart explorer,
it was my fault.

Turn on "Report skin errors "in CSM settings. Sometimes a window will pop up saying what the error is.
Most of the time is a mismatch of bitmaps used, a wrong dimension, or maybe trying to use a pattern mask,
when it should be an emblem mask? I'm amazed sometimes that even when I intentionally leave mismatches in,
the program can still work. Which reminds me, at some point, I have to fix a bitmap mismatch in the Bare Glass skin. Sometimes turning off all skin options can narrow down where the error occurs.

I don't remember if I mentioned this already about shutdown button, oh no, that was about the its color mask.
Um, if you want to make the shutdown button invisible, unless hovering, make the top 1/3 of shutdown bitmap
with 0 alpha.

Also, are you aware a 7 style main menu has 3 bitmaps?
main normal view, search view, and jump list view.

Ok I understand that we can't make glass/blur by just putting another picture.

Yeah, Ivo pointed out the slow downs in the skinning tutorial.

Explorer.exe crash don't occur if you are using the above skin as it is. The problem arises when you will use the emblems instead of pattern (currently patterns are using). In the skin file, Settings for the emblems are in the comments and if you remove the semi-colons and put them in front of pattern settings (so that now emblems are used), explorer.exe crashes and restarts (atleast in my case). Take a look below at the screen shot.

OK OK, I will do it. As I pointed in the previous reply this is not the final skin, It needs some modifications which I will try to do today. Your recommendations will be taken care.

Yeah I am aware of three bitmaps, I think I had put them in the skin.
Why? Is there any missing? What's happened?

Now skin looks like Crystal.

Looks good.

I think text is missing for List split selector.
Maybe you wanted it that way as it's hard to see the pin image.
You could borrow a bigger pin bitmap from another skin, along with its text.?

Yeah, something weird going on if emblem turned on. Maybe picture emblem is too big for middle position logic?
I would put everything on default 0 padding with Left Top position. See if that goes normal.
I read somewhere that's where it starts to draw it. From top left corner.
Sometimes these problems can take 15 minutes to fix, sometimes hours. I'll let you go for it.
If it works, great, if not, and since there is no texture on the 53 image, you could just reduce its size to a few pixels, and use as pattern for program to draw bigger.

About search, and jumplist bitmaps pattern masks, emblem masks.
Wasn't sure you knew. If you do add a bitmap to extend the right side of search box,
more pattern/emblem masks might be required.

Have I been drinking too much ginger beer?
I see double images on above posts. I kept looking back and forth for differences.
Yes, the difference is uploaded picture, and linked picture?

Ok, I had some time to play with the emblem text.
I'm a bit confused to know what the heck is going on with all the mixing, and non mixing.
It does not crash anymore, looks like emblems are opaque, unless image 53 has some alpha transparency added.
I actually turned pattern back on, to see what was going on.

I put this text in for testing crashing:

Pattern1=52
Pattern2=53
Main_pattern_mask=28
Main_pattern_search_mask=29
Main_pattern_jump_mask=30

; for the red part of mask
;Main_emblem1=53
;Main_emblem1_padding=0,0,0,0
;Main_emblem1_alignH=left
;Main_emblem1_alignV=top

; for the green part of mask
Main_emblem2=53
Main_emblem2_padding=0,0,0,0
Main_emblem2_alignH=left
Main_emblem2_alignV=top

Main_emblem_mask=28
Main_emblem_search_mask=29
Main_emblem_jump_mask=30



; extra masks if extended 7 style search box used with main patterns
;Search_pattern_mask=
;Search_pattern_search_mask=
;Search_pattern_jump_mask=


; copied pin bitmap from Metro skin
;Pin_bitmap=31

List_split_selection=9
List_split_selection_slices_X=3,1,1,2,1,1
List_split_selection_slices_Y=4,6,4
List_split_selection_mask=10




It would take a while to find out exactly how combinations of patterns and emblems,
along with transparencies/not transparencies of image 53, go together.

Most of the skins I made with emblems are for logos, text words,
that are 100% opaque with transparency around them.
Maybe emblems don't mix the way patterns do?




That's about all the time I have today to help you.
See ya.


EDIT: I was thinking after posting.
Maybe you don't even need image 53.
If all you are doing is adding a mix of non textured white using the green part of the regular main mask.
Could just make the green value like 200/255, or something referenced to white as a tint.

Main_bitmap_tint1=#000000
Main_bitmap_tint2=#FFFFFF
Main_bitmap_search_tint1=#000000
Main_bitmap_search_tint2=#FFFFFF
Main_bitmap_jump_tint1=#000000
Main_bitmap_jump_tint2=#FFFFFF

No, I did not try it for real, only in head.


EDIT: Again last one, really.
Now you got my curiosity going. I had to see what happens.

Imagination in head does not always work out in real life.
That text didn't work, for getting rid of pattern 53.
And I see you have a mix in the slits part already.

I tried a different approach, which appears to come out linear looking.
Only have icy crystal mountain picture as pattern.
Have main bitmap as white opaque, opacity region. (So brightest base as possible)
Have pattern mask 255 red, with 96 red on the slits part. No green.
The light and dark parts of menu are not as dynamic looking as yours,
as when pattern 53 white image is used. Funny, I wonder why? It must clip/over expose in some way?

I better get back to my other work. Bye

In case you are interested in a wider search box with your "S" inclusive,
here you go. The zip has the matching bitmaps to install.
Goodnight



Search_padding=0,0,0,0
Search_frame=0
Search_background=32
Search_background_mask=33

Search_background_slices_X=0,1,1, 0,13,4, 1,1,0
Search_background_slices_Y=0,1,1, 1,2,1, 1,1,0
Search_background_padding=0,0,0,0
Search_background_search_padding=0,0,0,0
Search_background_jump_padding=0,0,0,0
;Search_hint_font="Segoe UI",italic,-9

;to block pattern image showing inside search box
Search_pattern_mask=34
Search_pattern_search_mask=34
Search_pattern_jump_mask=34

It's a long time I hadn't reply you :-3 posts. Oh my God!
So I now I am replying your every post one by one.
One thing, My Internet connection Is facing some issues, so I am writing this reply offline In the wordpad. So, Your posts are in the bracket [ Just trying to mimic the "Reply with Quota" Option in the Board].
Once, My connection is restored; I will Upload the reply.

OK Let's get started.

[Now skin looks like Crystal.
Looks good.]

Thanks

[I think text is missing for List split selector.
Maybe you wanted it that way as it's hard to see the pin image.
You could borrow a bigger pin bitmap from another skin, along with its text.?]

I will check this. As I said earlier, I was making all the necessary edits, so there might be other things as well that are missing in the above skin file.

[Yeah, something weird going on if emblem turned on. Maybe picture emblem is too big for middle position logic?
I would put everything on default 0 padding with Left Top position. See if that goes normal.
I read somewhere that's where it starts to draw it. From top left corner.
Sometimes these problems can take 15 minutes to fix, sometimes hours. I'll let you go for it.
If it works, great, if not, and since there is no texture on the 53 image, you could just reduce its size to a few pixels, and use as pattern for program to draw bigger. ]

I will try the Idea later. As for now, I am near completing the skin and get along with patterns. When I complete the skin, I will try your Idea.

[About search, and jumplist bitmaps pattern masks, emblem masks.
Wasn't sure you knew. If you do add a bitmap to extend the right side of search box,
more pattern/emblem masks might be required.]

OK, I understand what you are saying :- Search_pattern_mask, Search_pattern_search_mask etc. I earlier understand that you were saying for Main_pattern_mask, Main_pattern_search_mask etc.
So, Yes, I knew them about but I leave that for sometime and focused on the Main pattern.
Don't Worry I will add these later.

[Have I been drinking too much ginger beer?
I see double images on above posts. I kept looking back and forth for differences.
Yes, the difference is uploaded picture, and linked picture?]

May be, I don't know. Ha Ha Ha
Actually the reason is I couldn't find a publicly accessible server the linked image command needs. So I first upload the image using the "attachment option" And then copy the link of uploaded file and put it in the linked image command. So in this way, you see two pictures.

You Could ask that Why I link the image, although I have uploaded one already. The reason is that Uploaded file sometimes shows itself and sometimes not, automatically. (I think)

Please tell me the right way to do it.

[OK, I had some time to play with the emblem text.
I'm a bit confused to know what the heck is going on with all the mixing, and non mixing.
It does not crash anymore, looks like emblems are opaque, unless image 53 has some alpha transparency added.
I actually turned pattern back on, to see what was going on.

I put this text in for testing crashing:

Pattern1=52
Pattern2=53
Main_pattern_mask=28
Main_pattern_search_mask=29
Main_pattern_jump_mask=30
........
........
........
List_split_selection=9
List_split_selection_slices_X=3,1,1,2,1,1
List_split_selection_slices_Y=4,6,4
List_split_selection_mask=10]

OK, One question. If it has worked in the above way, then this might means that we are stuck with the left/top alignment. If this is the case, then there is no reason to use the emblems as patterns do the same and I want emblems for the alignemnt purposes.

[It would take a while to find out exactly how combinations of patterns and emblems,
along with transparencies/not transparencies of image 53, go together.]

I think I know, The alpha transparencies of the Pattern1,2,3,4 and Main_bitmap mix together to create a new resultant alpha transparency layer and this layer get the blur or anything else. Alpha transparency of the Main_pattern_mask is not included as it is used for blending contribution of the fourth pattern or emblem. I don't know it for sure and can be wrong.

[EDIT: I was thinking after posting.
Maybe you don't even need image 53.
If all you are doing is adding a mix of non textured white using the green part of the regular
.................
.................
.................
EDIT: Again last one, really.
Now you got my curiosity going. I had to see what happens.
.................
.................
.................
The light and dark parts of menu are not as dynamic looking as yours,
as when pattern 53 white image is used. Funny, I wonder why? It must clip/over expose in some way?

I better get back to my other work. Bye]

Yeah, I figure it myself before reading your post and also had tried it and it worked.

For the first case about tint colors, it may had not work because I think mask is not active and is commented out. May be, I am not sure as I am through editing the skin and had left the above uploaded file far behind.

For the second case, I had done this and now I am using it. But I haven't noticed the difference in the look with and without Patterns 53 before but Now I do. I will try to figuring it out and try to devise some new way.

[In case you are interested in a wider search box with your "S" inclusive,
here you go. The zip has the matching bitmaps to install.
Goodnight................]

Thanks for this. I really like this. I want to do this too but i don't know what 9 slices of search_background mean.
Please tell me what they mean.


OK Now at the present , I have done all the edits and added almost all the features, I thought of, only 2 or 3 are remaining.

I want to ask few questions.

1] I want to make User image circle. So I take a look at the metro skin. There I found the User_mask instead of User_bitmap. I tried User_mask in my skin,but noting happened. There is also no mention of User_mask In the Skinning tutorial. Please tell me, where I can more information about it or Any way to make user image circular

2] When sawing the metro skin, I also saw the scrollbar modifications. Again There's no mention in the tutorial.So question is same , Any source to find more information about it.

3] With two things happened, I thought that there might be other things as well that have no mention in the skining tutorial. Is there are and If Yes, where can I found them.

So, I will post skin shortly.

OK. Bye

And sorry, for giving you this full length article to read.

INTERNET CONNECTION

I had noticed you have kiwix offline reader in your screenshot of start menu, which gave me the clue,
either you fly a lot, or have slow internet. I was on dial up for while back in the day.
Our posts are getting quite long. Are we writing novels?


I'll have to send information back in spurts.
I'm helping out someone with jackhammering part of a concrete floor, to get at some garbage
government approved plastic water pipe, that's gone bad.



I believe Ivo is a very busy man with his regular job. He hastily updated the skinning tutorial a while ago,
and yes, a few bits of information are still lacking.



USER PICTURE can be with auto frame, skinned frame, no frame shaped , and with frame & shaped.
I'm not showing the menu placement position text for some clarity. It's complex enough already.

The way the user picture works is something like this, though I never tried it all on 7 style:

If just the User_image_size=48 shown, I think a small frame is auto drawn.

or can use a your own frame:

User_image_size=48
User_bitmap=(your bitmap #) It would be total 64 pixel size. Has to be on 7 style.
User_image_offset=8,8

A black square with 0 alpha 48 pixels square,
with a semi transparent, to full opaque frame 8 pixels wide, that uses the User_image_offset above)



or can use no frame shaped:

User_image_size=48
User_mask=# (this is great for making round, octagonal, square, triangle, star shapes, without a frame.
The visible user picture shows only where alpha is 255/255)Has to be same size as image size eg 48pixels. And it won't cut off icons.
Also if a semi transparent png image is inputted with CSM settings, rather than Windows user picture settings,
parts will be transparent to the menu behind.



or can use both to get frame and bare image desired effect.

User_image_size=48
User_mask=#
User_bitmap=# (outside dimensions 64pixels)
User_image_offset=8,8

Note. If on 7 style, and a User_bitmap is used, the total size has to be 64 pixels,
to accomodate the other icons that show, or will get cut off.
The 0 alpha value part for the user picture can be seen is little as 1 pixel.
This may not make too much sense, unless you have time to try it.

Whenever a User_mask is used, there is a tiny brightness line on the top & left 1 pixel. It's not that noticeable.
If it bugs you, you could make a User_bitmap with black pixel lines at around 24 alpha to negate the effect.

I may have made example pictures in a past post for someone. No time.

I'll give another spurt blurt maybe tonight/tom.
Bye

Here is another picture to help understand all the slices, in this case, for taller search box.

TALLER WIDER alternate search box

If you absolutely want a taller wider search box, it becomes more complicated.
You see, the vertical size of search box changes with the main font size, or dpi.
which you have at -11 already. I don't think it can get any taller.
Upping the search hint font will only cut off the bottom letters.
I don't think text "Search_text_padding=1,6,1,6" can even work in search box.

An extension part of search background would need to be added, that could trick it.

You see, in a normal Win7 menu, there is padded white space around the search box.
That is what those extra slices, that Ivo put in, are for.
Those extra slices are for the outside of the search box area, where you can increase the Search_padding.
In this case, putting the box line on the outer slice edge along with altered slices and padding text,
we trick it so the outside is part of the inside.
It needs a whole new set of matching bitmaps to use.





other


MAIN BITMAPS
Was just asking, as it was your first skin.
I wasn't sure you knew at the time, about the all main bitmaps, which led to even more pattern masks. and more.
Back when I was helping out shpkong with his skins, we learned about having to use pattern mask for the 7 style search box, in a certain circumstance.



UPLOADING IMAGES.
Everybody else seems to use Imgur. I did for awhile, then links went dead.
I don't think Ivo minds a direct image upload.
I try and keep mine no bigger than 1 meg, usually around 100k size,
so it doesn't affect page loading.


SCROLLBAR
I'm on Win10 Creators update, that broke the skinning of scrollbar, and taskbar, from working.
It might be difficult to explain it.

Best to look at the skins that have it.
There seems to be two ways of having directional arrows on the end buttons.
Either use an arrow bitmap, or integrate them into the end buttons.


That's all.
Good nightynight.

OK, thanks for the info. I understand User_mask settings, Search settings and how to upload images.

For Scrollbar, problem is same as that of you:- Win10 CU

So, Skin is ready.Only some house-cleaning is required as all the bitmaps are scattered without any order. I will clean it today and hope I will post it at the end of day.

OK, Bye

Hello Juniper7, Below is the skin which is nearly complete.
Only three things are remaining:

1] Although I am testing the different options, I am not confident that there might not be any miss. So, can you please test some of the features especially Submenus and jumplist related as I don't use these features in daily life.

2] Any other recommendations

3] I have not adapted this skin for High DPI displays because I dont know how much Percentage is used. Can you do it for me. Or I have an Idea That I will borrow Percentages for other skin files, But don't know that it will work or not. Will It?

OK, When You said OK , I will make a new post for posting the skin.
Try it and tell me How it is?

One More thing, I am using a picture for the pattern as you know. I don't know it belong to someone or not or it is copyrighted.

So, Is It Ok that I use that picture in the skin?

Wish I could look at it.
On a back breaking job today.

No matter, I will wait.

And, One thing. Above I mentioned the time lag in animations. I found the root cause of this today morning. It was due to setting "show frequent apps" in the classic shell menu settings.
If you replace that with"Show recent apps" or "No apps" , time lad considerably reduces.
And menu settings above still need to be updated for "show recent apps"
Hope you will try this when you are free.

OK, bye. Have a good day

It takes a lot of work to put in so many options for a picture start menu. Less than a dozen have made one.

I like the asymmetrical circle user picture frame.

You've got to be the first person to put so many color pickers for options.

Spelling mistake in skin options Use white Seperators to Separators

Shutdown white arrow and white text not visible on white shutdown selector sometimes.
Might have to omit in that location (black always),
or show black only, if "Show Colored Background Pad" not picked?
I have to say, this happens only when your xml settings file is not loaded.

Beats me about using someone's picture. Could put a reference in your post, the link of where you downloaded it,
or thanking the artist by name?


I did not catch anything odd with jump list view.

Similar issue with the white arrows on white submenu, if xml not loaded. Maybe make a separate submenu white arrows option, or have show black ones, if submenu background color option not picked, or do nothing at all?


Any other recommendations? Aw, I miss Crystal mountain. It was pleasant to look at.
Probably picture too small, and would start to tile repeat on Hidpi.

High DPI. In most cases, it's not worth it, scaling up another batch of menu bitmaps.
The smaller the border, the less noticeable it becomes.
The menu border is 7 pixels at normal 96 dpi. To match at 144 dpi 1.5 times,
menu border size would need to be 10.5 pixels. Not worth the effort to make extra 3 pixels size.
Sometimes separators have enlarged height for the invisible padded part. In your case it butts right up anyway.
Some menu files have ,100% after a dimension, so it auto sizes with dpi.
Again, I don't think your design requires it. Text font size will normally increase along with dpi, though in one instance the classic basic skins don't increase font size with CSM dpi settings. I think because it uses system font size.

Maybe the only bigger sizes to make would be the metro arrows. They still look ok, as they were bigger to begin with.
Because those are your own bitmaps, they don't change size when the magic dpi threshold 144 dpi is hit.

I'm just looking at your text file. For all the options you have put in, it is a very compact script.
As I said before, you are very efficient. On my skins, I copy & paste willy nilly. A lot of waste.

Ok, arrows. It would be easy if just putting text like this:

[HIGH_DPI]
Main_arrow=4, REPLACE WITH=53

but it don't work dat way.

Well, you have to make 1.5 times size extra arrows of everything. It has to be like this:

[HIGH_DPI]
Main_arrow=52
Main_pager_arrows=53
Search_arrow=52
Submenu_arrow=52
Submenu_pager_arrows=53

And wherever there is an option that has arrows in it, you have to add another like:

[HIGH_DPI AND WHITEARROW]
Main_arrow=54
Programs_icon=55
Search_arrow=54
Submenu_arrow=54
Shudown_arrow=54
Main_pager_arrows=56
Submenu_pager_arrows=56

[HIGH_DPI AND WHITEARROW AND SQUARE]
Main_arrow=54
Programs_icon=55
Search_arrow=54
Submenu_arrow=54
Shudown_arrow=54
Main_pager_arrows=56
Submenu_pager_arrows=56

Ooh.
There is another bitmap that usually has HI DPI replacement, the user picture.
It's not just a reference to a bigger bitmap. You will have to add extra text for the dimensions/positioning.

I haven't quite grasped the transparent, and glass settings. Is it just the boundary borders that are transparent?
The throughout options work well, even when an external picture image is used.

Nice job.
I see 5 others have downloaded your skin. Wonder what they think?

You like the asymmetrical circle. Thanks.

Seperators are now Separators. This was not new to me.
I had done this mistake many times even while creating the skin.

For Shutdown Text Color, I added A new Color Picker.

For Shutdown arrow, I separated it from Other white arrows option.
Same For Submenu arrows and separators.
Before adding that I tried many ways, But at some condition problem arises.
So, I simply done the above.

I don't know Who's the artist is. It was in the theme I downloaded from the themepack.me.
So , Will I just add this to the reference?

That Mountain Picture. It is at the end of reply.
Also I cropped the jelly fish picture in the revised skin file to get the more veiw of Jelly fish in the main menu.

I don't get it. Do you want me to make big arrows or small one? At normal DPI Or higher DPI?
Please explain.

User Picture and adjustments are still needs to be changed.
I don't get What I have to do. Do I have make New Frames With 1.5 times 64 (=96) pixel size.
Or Something else.
And adjusting padding will be difficult one as I can not see what I have done.
I tried to manually override dpi (at 144) in the Classic shell settings, but in vain. Menu Turns out to be Godzilla.

Yeah, You are right. Transparent and glass shows transparency on the boundaries.
These are like alpha and glass.
And Throughout options are like fullalpha and fullglass.
Yeap, They work even with external picture.

One question:- Can this skin work on Windows Vista or not?
Just thinking about what to write in the New Post.
Any other requirement it has?

Thanks for suggestions. Below is the revised skin file and Your Mountain Pic.
And Name Of New Skin:- Blue Ray.
Like It Or Not?

Vista
Your skin is probably not going to work on Vista.
A lot of feature options that you put into skin require CSM version 4.3.0.
Ivo stopped updating Vista at Version 3.6.8, before all these new features were created.


Thank you for the Mountain pictures.

Credit the artist
Way back, someone asked me to make some Nintendo start menu skins. I wasn't sure about it too.
They are still there in the back pages. Nobody asked to have them taken down from site.
Millions of wallpapers are shared around the world, we are not selling the skins if picture included.
The pictures are usually always free to use anyway.
I think it's ok, even without credits.



Bigger Hidpi Metro arrows
It's up to you, if you want to make a set for high dpi. I don't have hidpi monitor.
Is regular 1920x1080.
I can set it up so menu is at 150%/144dpi. What I'm saying is even though the arrows are made for 100%/96 dpi,
they still look acceptable (not tiny) at 144 dpi. I would not bother. Tell you what.
You can ask Gaurav what he thinks of your skin. I know he has a Hidpi monitor.


User picture for Hidpi
When you say Godzilla, was it so huge, or got all screwed up looking, and cut off?
I was just giving information to you, if you want to use it. Like whenever CSM detects that dpi is 144 or higher,
whatever is under this [HIGH_DPI], program will be forced to use that text. Some people don't know this.

I don't want to force you to do anything, especially doing it blind. If you want to, you could create 150 percent size frames, and I could set it up with my monitor? There is one thing, that does not change size.
Those icons that show instead of user picture, stay same size.

Here I made a screen shot of the last older skin at 144dpi.
Now you can decide whether to make arrows, user picture bigger?

OK, tell me if I understand you right or wrong:-

I have to make 96 pixel User frame Size and bigger arrows (1.5 times the current size).

If This is to be done, I will do it today and post it at the end of day.
On hidpi monitor they really look tinny.
Thanks.

OK, now my head is spinning, getting more confused, and it's not the jolt of strong coffee.
From what I have read 96 DPI is standard Windows default for years at 100% size.
Some people call it PPI (pixels per inch), because it suits monitors better than dots per inch for printing.

120 DPI for 125% size
144 DPI for 150% size

I only have one monitor now. If I leave Windows display size on default, and
if I override the DPI CSM setting, changing from default 0 DPI to 96DPI, exit, and restart CSM,
the menu is same size. Which leads me to believe, my system is 96 DPI.

If you do the same on your system, what happens? Does menu show same size or get smaller, bigger?

It used to be I could customize scaling in Windows system, beyond where it has 100%,125%,150%, and so on,
where it showed an image of a ruler, showing DPI. Now with Creators update, I don't see the ruler/ dpi part anymore. Just percentage.
Now it makes me wonder 100% 96 DPI on my system might be 100% 125 DPI on a different system?

Whatever bitmaps you made already, the way I see it, are for standard 96 DPI.
So if you feel inclined to make bigger 1.5 times size bitmaps, those will turn on at 144 DPI, when set up in file.

other
When I get back later, I have Vista on an old hard drive. Going to plug it in.
I want to verity if your skin can/can not work on that system.

Seeya

...wait, did a CSM update come out that reintroduced Windows Vista support or something?

_________________
TILES WOOOOOO

I think Vista is dead as a Dodo.
meetHG was asking if his skin can work on Vista.

Vista, Vista. You know if Vista was full glass 2nd and 1st column, it would probably look like classic Smoked glass skin.
Has anybody made a smokey top 7 style skin? Maybe time to try. I wonder if serendipity is married now with 10 children?

For Classic Shell, yes. Start9 supports it, though. (I seem to sympathize with the under-appreciated, unfairly loathed OS...)



Oh, I missed that...woops .-.



True... O.o



Ooh



...idk...

_________________
TILES WOOOOOO

Here, You go. Large arrows and User frame and mask is below in the zip.

In it is there also a new skin file.
The reason is:-
I tried to write the settings which need to be introduced for High DPI.
But found that they become too complicated.
And If you have downloaded the skin file in the above reply, you will see that i have added
color picker for shutdown text color.
This makes things more complicated.
So, a new file.


In the new skin, two changes are:-

1] Separated the "Show White User Image Frame" Setting from the "Show white arrows in the main menu".
2] Now, Shutdown Button color is fixed at black And it's text color white.
3] Shutdown arrow is fixed at white.
4] Some name changes of Options.
5] Submenu padding changes

In the zip, is also a text file in which i was writing what options are needed written.
It may have some errors as I got a lot confused while writing it.
It might come handy for you.

And One more thing:- IMAGE RESOURCE In The Skin is 53. And Bitmaps end at 52.
So, better watch out these.

Ok, Have a good day.

I'll see what you are up to sometime this weekend,
and see if I can help further if needed.

Hello
All I did was add the arrows, and user picture parts as png images(to save some file size),
and add the HiDPI text at bottom of script.



At 144 DPI, the arrows are larger, but they look thin next to thicker text.
You might want to thicken up HI-DPI arrows? I think it's due to the busy jellyfish image.

Also on 144DPI. When you moved the jellyfish image to left in new version,
jump list view now shows end of picture, then repeats. It looked fine (no tile repeat), on last version.
Maybe put both images in skin file(file getting bigger). Then 100% reg size assigned to use latest modded image, and assigned under HiDPI to use the older image?

I never noticed before, but the glass and transparent throughout option,
only works if "Show background card color" is checked? Something odd with text logic, or you wanted that way?


About user picture. I notice on reg size, that the square black frame has transparency.
all the rest of bitmaps have opaque frames? Which looks better? I don't know.

If a user picture is black, you will see a brighter top/left pixel line. Barely noticeable with detailed picture.
If you don't want line to show, one way is to hide edge of picture behind an opaque frame.
example on reg size:

User_image_padding=10,10
User_image_offset=7,7
User_image_size=50

change to

User_image_padding=10,10
User_image_offset=6,6
User_image_size=52

Note. The round user mask would need to be bigger size too.

I see on the hidpi round frame, you already did something like this,
where frame hides a little bit of user picture.


Handing back to you for possible further processing.



Woops. Big upload file. I should have made jpg pictures.


One other thing.

I did try older skin with CSM 3.6.8 on Vista operating system.
It does not show up in the 7 style list. I renamed .skin7 to .skin
All that showed was a white menu with your search "S"
So, that's a no to skin working on Vista.

EDIT: Zip upload has been deleted as per agreement.

Think, bitmap size kind a big.
Ok, no matter png will also work.

When I was creating hiDPI Arrows, my mind gave a signal that they might be little thin.
But I refuse to listen him.
Now, I know I was wrong.
No matter, i will make them thick.

Oh! I am doing a lot of mistakes.
THis will also be corrected.
I will increase the width of jellyfish image.

Yeah, I noticed it too only yesterday.
There might be some problem with masks.
I will try to cure it.

One of them is transparent. I tried to add transparency.
But it doesn't show up (may be it had and was too little to see).
So, I leave all them there.

I magnified my user image in the menu at 700% with magnifier.
But I still couldn't see it.
May be it is noticeable with black image.
No matter I will try it.

Is Round User mask absent in the bitmap?
I remember of making it.
May be left out while packing them?

Ok, Vista is gone.

Thanks. Have a good night

Hello

Bitmaps are the biggest size for using in the skin file.
Pngs will compress without loss. Will come out smaller than bitmaps.
Depending if how much texture is in image, they can compress to virtually nothing.
Jpgs compress and throw away part of image, as well as add lots of noise blocks.
Jpgs can have small file size, when compressed a lot.

I agree with your subconscious mind on thicker HiDPI arrows.

I feel at home, when you say about mistakes.

I didn't look into why transparency of jellyfish image not showing sometimes.
If you can't figure it out, I will look at it. You try first though.

Round User mask was not absent.
I was only talking about possibly modifying the ones there,
if you want to hide the user picture brighter bevel lines.
I put a show and tell picture in the upload zip.
It is titled "Hide beveled line" open it up in your Adobe Photoshop 7, and use the magnifier there.
Do you see the difference now? If you modify, that is what it would look like.

EDIT: OK. I understand now. Sorry.
You thought the lines are on your bitmap.
They are automatically added by Windows, or CSM program.
I think it's to give a little 3d look.
I took advantage of the effect in one of my skins,
and made twice as bright all around.

Something is weird with the Under Construction Blue Ray zip.
People have gone nuts and downloaded it 22 times.
That's nice, but all the bugs have not been removed.
And it would have to be where I used huge show and tell png pictures. Sorry.

Should I delete the zip to stop people from downloading?

It's a good name for a skin.
It has a special attraction

Yeah, you are right. People actually have gone nuts.
Neither my previous crystal skin nor any of the skins i posted above are downloaded this much.
And Most funniest thing is I have not downloaded the zip till the writing of this reply.

Actually, I am kind a stuck with downloading.
My Internet modem can provide download speeds of about 300 Kbyte to 1 Mbyte.
But whenever I try to download the skin file download speed is throttled to about 5Kbyte.
I had tried about 6 times with same end result.
"Download Failed".

Looks like I have to try another way out.

So, don't delete the zip.
I will tell you when to delete the zip as soon as I downloaded it!

And For the transparency of Jellyfish, I searched on wikipedia.
They said that most of jellyfish is made up of water so it is transparent.
Might the skin needs water!!

Jokes apart
Later in the day, I try to figure out the reason in my version of skin and SUCCESS.
So, Reason is:

Whole transparency (or alpha channel) comes from Main_bitmap.
Jellyfish Image Is completely Opaque.
So, when we have checked the "Choose Card Color" Option,
Pattern Mask is set to work and it reduces the contribution of image to 96/255 in the middle area where color actually shows up.
So, alpha transparency (or main bitmap) have a good say in the final result.

But, when it is checked off, Pattern_mask is #FF0000 which eliminates the contribution of Main_bitmap.
Due to this no transparency.

So, tell me What should I do. I see three choices:

1] Leave things as they are.

2] Add Another Similar Jellyfish Image Resource with transparency added. This makes things somewhat comlicated.

3] Change the Pattern_mask when option is unselected (from #FF0000 to some other). This option provides transparency of main_bitmap to the final result (as required)
but also provides some of it's RGB color (which I think is white) (which is not required). So, this means unselecting the Option don't turn off the colors but instead set it to default. (White).

4] Later in the Late day(!), I found one more option: Disable the Glass And tranparent throughout options if "Show color card" Option is not checked and Disable Glass And Transparent Options If "Show Coloured Boundaries" Options Unchecked And Disable the preceding four If both options are unchecked. But, I know how to disable OPTIONS, Can RADIO_GROUP Options can also be turned off in this way.

OK, bye.
Have A good day.

I'm working on gutting/converting a Vista type skin to full glass column 1 & 2, 7 style, for rest of weekend.
I'm scared of switching back and forward between that skin, and yours.
In the past, I wrote over a good skin with a bad skin.

So, I'm not trying anything with your skin, only in my mind.





1. Too confusing if left as is. I know your mindset is simplify out the redundancies.

2. Transparent alpha Jellyfish-nice.
I'm guessing just switch out a tiny menu bitmap with 255/ 255 alpha for non transparent.
Don't need to double up huge images. Problem external user image won't be transparent.
When I say bitmap, I really mean main & jump & search.

3.Maybe this idea could be good. When Card color is turned off, it's really turned on still,
but set at a color/brightness that matches what a real transparent skin looks like.

4. There are two ways to have logic.
At the options part. If there is an option above called A, with option B below it,
On the B option, extra text can be put A, or it can have NOT A
That changes how those options work together, and the way the button looks.
Radio group can disable other options too.

The other way is with the header. Sometimes a group bracket is required inside to make clear logic.

[A]
This way

[B]
That way

[A AND B]
This way and that way

[A AND NOT B]

[A AND B AND NOT C]

Check out other skin's text, to see how they are used.

Good luck, and I know you will do well.
The film downloaders are counting on you.

1] OK, I understand that we cannot leave the options non-working.

2] I don't understand the second point : Do I have to replace the current zero transparent Main_menu bitmap with another more transparent menu_bitmap?

3] OK, If somehow I managed to set the color and brightness real close to jellyfish image, then how can I set it for other custom Images that user can pick.

4] Yeah, I know we can use operations like and,or,not but that doesn't mean that they will disable the radio button in settings menu (like grayed out).
And By putting the text behind the options like OPTION 1="xxxxxxxxxxxx",0,yyyyyyyyyyy,0 we can disable it. But this doesn't seem to work for radio button - that is we can disable an option by using radio group but cannot disable radio group by using option.

OK, Bye.

You know I started to look at your latest skin. I saved all the skin resources to a folder.
Holy Batman. It mushroomed into a lot of bitmaps.

I tried your question 3 Card color preset to a color. I could not get it looking the right way.
Gave up on that.

Then decided to go back to the fishing boat in forest skin.
It's hard to figure out how transparency works with a pattern image. Talk about racking one's brains.
So complicated, I'm singing this, by the way.
I just want to put the basics in, no color picker stuff. Just to see if possible.

I'm not even making search, jump bitmaps. Only the main menu bitmaps, and pattern bitmaps.
So far I got working

Opaque inside/outside image
Opaque inside/outside image with light/dark borders

Transparent alpha same as above

Transparent Glass same as above

Opaque is still the best. Does not get washed out with a white window behind menu.

So going back to your question 2 with the new answer. By modifying main bitmap, can use opaque internal picture,
as well as an external opaque picture that will show with transparency alpha/glass on menu.
Will it slow down menu? Not on my computer.

The way I did it was depending if glass, or alpha option.
I made the main bitmap 1 alpha for glass, or 210 alpha for trans alpha. CSM opacity at default 50.
I had to set CSM override glass color to black, in order to get rid of metro glass color leakage.

The pattern mask has slit part mixed color 200 red (for pattern1 picture),
55 green (referenced to black so white menu lettering can be read.) How much it works, don't know. Maybe did nothing.
The part for light border is 190 red (for pattern1 picture), with 65 blue (pattern 3 referenced to a white pattern image)
Had to use a stronger pattern mask for dark border 127 red (for pattern1 picture),
and 127 blue (pattern 3 referenced to a black pattern image)

This old lean skin is in total shambles. I don't want to upload it, unless you want to copy parts over to your newer skin.
Here are a few pictures 75% resized, of what it looks like and the few options that make it work.

Bye for another day or two.

Hello meetHG. Oh, I see now on you menu. That's your name initials.
I'm sending this now, for I will be busy the next few days.

Looking at Ivo's Metallic skin,
I revealed his clever way of using pattern masks.

I managed to now have borders with light( whitish),
or dark (greyish), or have color picker enabled.


To get color picker on borders:

Main_pattern_mask connected to

Pattern3_mask=#FF0000 connected to

Pattern3_tint1=@COLORBOUND@ which is the border color picker.

Piece of cake.

Originally, I was using a small real white, or black image for pattern3
for the borders, then I just tried text instead:

;old way
;Main_pattern_mask=34
;real black image
;Pattern3=54

;or use just text
Main_pattern_mask=34
Pattern3_mask=#FF0000
Pattern3_tint1=#000000

; or with color picker
Main_pattern_mask=34
Pattern3_mask=#FF0000
Pattern3_tint1=@COLORBOUND@

Hope this helps.

Bye.

OMG The blue ray zip is now at qty 56 downloads. Going to be 55 unhappy downloaders.

Hi Juniper7
1] First of all sorry, I have done a mistake in understanding the Problem of transparency.
And that mistake also reproduces in my last reply.

Look at the picture below to understand why transparency and blur not works.

2] It took a good amount of time to understand your reply. Pardon My English understanding capacity.
And, I am not sure that I had understand it correctly.

So, according to my understanding, you gone to an old skin.

And then made some changes to the Main_bitmap_mask And Pattern_mask
to solve the problem: Transparency and Glass don't work if "Show Background Card color" option is not checked.

And you solve it by making alpha=1/255 in the Main_bitmap for glass
and alpha=210/255 in Main_bitmap for transparency.

You also added some other pattern to make the text reading easier.

So, tell me If I understand you correctly?

3] If yes, then here's my view:

Actually, transparency is present already in the Main_bitmap.
But due to Pattern_mask=#FF0000, Pattern1 takes all the contribution
and Main_bitmap has no say in the Final Result and so does transparency. (As you Can See in the picture above.)

So, What now? I hope leaving things as they are might be the best option.

4] Below is the Updated skin file For HIDPI. I Have Made arrows thicker so you can check if they looks OK or not. I also Changed the default jellyfish picture (Kind bored with it). New Picture with Blur looks great, What do you think?

If you find any problems, tell me.

5] I have finally downloaded your ZIP, so you can remove it if you want.

OK, Bye.

Hi, In the above reply, I forgot add one thing that is main_bitmap_masks And tint1_colors, you can look at that in the skin. That's my way of adding colors to the borders or main area.

Is it wrong? Or the other way of Pattern mask and tint colors helps better?Can it solve the problem of transparency?

OK, Bye.

Sorry man, I don't have time to read and understand.
Here is the old boat skin. Most of stuff I changed is at the bottom. See if you can figure out what I did. Will come back in a few days to help
Bye

Hi, I take a look at your skin.
Yeah, you had make transparent menu by using Main_bitmap, patterns and masks.

But, My skin can do that too.

The problem arises only when "Show background color" is not checked.
As your skin haven't that option, the color in the Main_bitmap or in the pattern is used all the time. (which is black).

Look below at the picture.
In the left, it's your skin having black tint in the middle portion
To the right is mine one, having no tint, it is original jellyfish image color. (When "Show Background Color" is unchecked)

These tint colors can be confusing. I got myself confused many times when writing options in the skin file.
Here's a little equation which helped me:

Showing original pattern(Image) color = Not showing any color ≠ Showing Black Color

Might this help you.
I am waiting when you become free of your daily job.
Have a nice day.
Bye.

Sorry to interrupt, but isn't it about time this thread got a better title? ._.

_________________
TILES WOOOOOO

Hi meetHG and juniper7, lovely to see your skinning efforts. juniper7 is a skinning pro who has made some superb skins, some of them are better than even the skins shipping in Classic Shell.

Anyway, this is how your skin looks at high DPI. There are 2 screenshots. (Btw superb job with the way the custom image background is shown for the skin).

Let me know if you want a screenshot with some specific skin settings.

Some of the icons in the submenus and in search results touch each other, so you might want to increase their padding/spacing a little bit. Also if frames are enabled for submenus, they touch each other.

Also, the Shutdown button's arrow part could be bigger and have a separator from the left part (since it's a split button). In fact, the jumplist buttons could also be bigger and get a separator.

_________________
Links to some general topics:

● Compare Start Menus

● Read the Search box usage guide.

I am a Windows enthusiast and did Classic Shell's testing and usability/UX feedback.

OK. I was waiting for your review. I will take a look and then inform you.

OK, Bye. Thanks

I take a look at the screenshot.
It was hard to view the image. Two times I tried to download but failed at 92%.
Then, simply viewed with the browser, still lower part don't show up.

No matter, Most of the menu showed up. I take a quick look.
It looks fine, although arrows seems to be little "little".
What do you think?

I noticed the submenus.
Yeah you are right. Icons seems to get into each other.
I will fix this one.
Same with search results will be done.

For shutdown and split selectors (jump buttons), do you want to increase the size of the second part where the arrows reside or the arrows itself.
Also, they do contain the separation but it is only 2 pixel wide so may be hard to see it.
No matter, I will fix this one also.

Thanks

Wow! First image don't showed up earlier: only after coming from the above reply.
Few second to analyze the screenshot.

EDIT: Taken a look, looks OK.

Do you know that Blue ray skin can mimic a various other types of skin.
Below is the screenshot in which it looks like Metro (although some icons may be different like that of All Programs)
For this you have to set some settings as shown in the side picture.

I think, the area where the arrow is should be made much bigger and maybe a contrasting color for the separator. When touch features are enabled in the menu (Windows 8 and up), the Shutdown button can get much bigger if the skin specifies it.

For the skin I use on a daily basis, I have made its Shutdown button much bigger since I also have a touchscreen. It's a minor mod of the extremely awesome skin made by juniper7: (see the Shutdown button is almost as big as the jumplist buttons).

_________________
Links to some general topics:

● Compare Start Menus

● Read the Search box usage guide.

I am a Windows enthusiast and did Classic Shell's testing and usability/UX feedback.

OK, I will do some modifications to Jump selectors and shutdown bitmap.